The Wayfarer's Inn

This is what you are looking for:

http://mmrpg.zeitgeistgames.com/index.p ... opic&t=594



BTW: Welcome to these boards!

Havard

TG1975: I'm not sure it's at all reasonable to discuss "Arnesonian D&D" as Dave (1) created his game first, and (2) the name "Dungeons and Dragons" was coined by Gary's daughter.

gsvenson: I apologize for having been absent on DF for some time. Had I seen the thread from the beginning, I'd have stepped in much earlier. Tim, in his position as one of the original TSR team, is fully within his rights to tell the story as he remembers it. gsvenson, as one of the original Blackmoor players, you also have the right to tell the story as you remember it. However, a great many of those involved in the argument have no such legs to stand on. Given that it is Tim Kask's Q&A thread, his position is what the thread is about. You would be more than welcome to post a Q&A thread on DF, where you would be accorded the same respect by the moderation team that is being granted to Tim in his thread; or you are equally welcome to direct those interested to this or some other forum for the same purpose.

As to Sieg: I'll talk to him. I'm not sure why he took sides in this.

Well, I hope we're all cool with that.

Although Dave and I know each other at least passing-well, I was not in the Midwest during the early '70s, and thus have no hard knowledge of the matter being addressed. (Tim Kask and I are somewhat better acquainted.)

imho it's simple courtesy not to interrupt Tim's memoir to spew opinions, either pro or con.

But it seems that many others are not so courteous. :/

Well I can read it anyway, even though the system will not let me register.

It is reasonable, since what I would be playing would not be Blackmoor (I would need a copy of Dave's rules to do that), all I can do in my home campaign is try to create a few gaming sessions that would hopefully approximate the flavor of Dave's campaign. I think that Arnesonian D&D (given the rules that I have are D&D) is the closest that I will be able to come, since I can't actually play Blackmoor. Now if there were someway that I could get a copy of the original rules that Dave was using ..., of course that is a pipe dream.



You will find no finer or fairer mod than Solomoriah.

As for me, there was no reason why this would go so over the top.

The paradoxical about this whole flaming was that none of those who responded to Mr Kask's comments in question, including me, I think,
did write in an unrespectful manner, but all to the contrary.
It was Mr Kask who answered to normal questions in an offensive tone,
and this was what lead to the subsequent trouble.

I certainly had no opinion on Mr Kask before he appeared at DF,
and I can comment even less on the happenings that he writes about, but I wouldn't have expected to be attacked
just because I expressed my alienation about the harshness of his statements.

In the end, I think it's rather sad; I am sure that Mr Kask could have contributed better stories than what just appears his personal vendetta with Mr Arneson.
In fact, I had put high hopes in his Q&A, since I recalled him being a player of the original ToEE campaign, which is my favourite module.

Man I don't care to get involved..but just an observation....

Mr Kask first wrote about working on the Blackmoor booklet as his first major project and having to edit it.

Then later on he talks about Mr Arneson criticizing Dragon and his edits.

So Dave may have not liked the work done on Blackmoor and snubbed Tim, which has lead to this bad blood.

Again though this is what I'm getting from it regarding Tim's writings, I've no ill will toward either gentlemen.

ShaneG.

I think Solomoriah made a wise ruling. I was upset by Kask's statements, but I was even more angered by others who voiced in who had no knowledge of the matter repeating hearsay etc. I guess "Celebrities" get a bit more leeway from the mods, especially in their own threads. As it should be I suppose. I'm glad Rob and Greg are here so that the other side may be heard as well.

Ivid: From what I remember you were only asking questions, so you are not to blame for any of this. Some DF'ers may see this thread as a kind of conspiracy now, though if they bother to read through it they will see that that is far from the case.

I find it interesting that so many people are of the perception that Gary Gygax and other TSR staff are victims in need of defending from Dave Arneson and his "fanboys". Although I have seen many people criticize mr Gygax, I haven't seen it from the Dave Arneson camp (if there is such a thing). OTOH, I have seen several threads over at DF appearing to be attempts to minimize Arneson's role in the creation of the D&D products that he is listed as an author of, Supplement II in particular.

Since alot of people may be reading this now I would like to show my colors too: Most people will probably see me as an Arneson fanboy since I am running the Blackmoor website. However, I am also a fan of the works of Gary Gygax, Frank Mentzer, Bruce Heard, Aaron Allston and many others who have worked on D&D products over the years. That many of these people don't get along now is sad, but it won't stop me from enjoying the game

Havard

I didn't know who Tim Kask was until last week. My roommate from college, Richard Snider, said he edited the Dragon and from the DF forum, I guess, he had a big role in AD&D. After more than 30 years since that split, I would have thought that he would have a much better time telling stories about those times then bringing up something that was obviously so painful for him. Later, he could tell this story without all the slander and let people draw their own conclusions.

From what I have seen and heard I would make the same assumption that you have, Shane. My knowledge is all based upon these forum discussions, however. I have no inside knowledge.

I know little about the split between David and TSR except that it happened. I assume that as D&D got more successful and profitable David (Mr Arneson) and Gary (Mr Gygax) both got arrogant and since Gary ran the company, he won. And the winner gets to write the history. I suspect that if either of them had any idea that D&D would be so successful they would have had personal lawyers with them when they made their initial agreement. I bet neither of them thought it would sell more than a few thousand copies when they put it together.