The Wayfarer's Inn

gsvenson · Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 3:43 pm Post subject:

I just read the Dragonsfoot posts from last night and today. I want to thank you guys for your support!
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Greg Svenson

Glgnfz · Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 4:16 pm Post subject:

i liked cab's attempt, too!
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Brimli, Dwarven Fighter

robertthebald · Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 6:57 pm Post subject: A Call to Arms

Greg,
Congratulations my friend. You had the courage to take a shot in the dark, where I only saw frustration, in trying to talk to the people at Dragonsfoot. I hope you realize how successful you were. They are admitting that thirty years of using TSR and these forums, not to mention anyone who would listen to them, is their subjective version of what happened. They do have the right to say whatever stories they want to tell. This is why I decided to talk about what happened back then, so that people can hear someone else, who was there before D&D, talk about the things they leave out, or that they were not there to know about. We have all those years of their "memoires" to make up for, but by telling the truth about Blackmoor and our experiences with D&D, hopefully people will realize that there is a lot more to their stories than they have been telling.
Bob
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Bob Meyer

gsvenson · Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 8:42 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the encouragement, Bob.

I have only looked at the Kask forum that Rafael provided a link to in this thread. Where are you looking? What discussions are you following over there? I am afraid that there is just too much material for me to absorb at Dragonsfoot. I don't have the time to sift through it all.

I only played D&D with my little brown box version until the new release of Blackmoor came out, then I picked up the 3.5 version. I actually got to play test the 3.0 edition with David over in Orlando just before it came out. Anyway, the other editions are alien to me...
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Greg Svenson

Havard · Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 9:33 pm Post subject:

I'm glad you guys are here to give us the other version.

And I do think Robert is right about Kask only making himself look bad with the kind of comments he has made so far. I'll be following the thread to see how it goes. I also wish the DF moderators would step in on things like name calling.

Saying that you dont like a person, or that you dont like the work he has produced is fine. No need to resort to slander.

Havard
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http://blackmoor.mystara.us
The Piazza

robertthebald · Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 1:05 am Post subject:

Greg,
I was referring to the entries in Kask's Q&A today by Greg Ellis (Argument? Truth? What?!?! ; etc.) where he refers to Kask's comments as a "memoire". This was followed almost immediately by one of their moderators calling himself Sieg, who agreed with Ellis. Gygax didn't help himself either by taking credit for almost everything, including Traveller, if only by infering that it is alright for himself to inspire anything similar to D&D. These entries were on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday in the same thread. Two problems with that are: first, the person calling himself Makofan disputed the Traveller connection, but Gygax still insisted on taking credit anyway. Second, if Gygax felt that he should have credit for any similar game to D&D, why doesn't he give equal credit to Blackmoor and David, from whom he published D&D (according to himself). I like the way he states what he calls undisputed facts. They have been undisputed until now by the gag order put on David by the settlement of the lawsuit, and David's disinterest in becoming involved in any more disputes after what was a very draining court case. Gygax and the TSR people always had the resources because they had the established company (TSR) that everyone associated with D&D. We will see if we can get the facts out there so people can make up their own mind. I guarantee we will be a lot more believable than Kask, because we are only interested in telling our own story. There is no need to be as abusive as Kask is. I think this is an indication of the arrogance they have developed from the undisputed stories they have been able to repeat over the years. This whole affair is rather sad, because they have a tremendous volume of their own work out there. Besides the fact that it was the first such game marketed, the volume of material probably went a long way towards the growth of the game. It is too bad they then proceeded to shoot themselves in the foot, and muddied the waters, by changing the product and spreading the game too thin.
As for the other entries I was refering to in Dragonsfoot, they are far too numerous and go back quite a ways. You might as well call that website TSR.
Bob
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Bob Meyer

gsvenson · Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 11:43 am Post subject:

Ok. I saw those posts. I thought it rather funny that Mr Gygax would try to take credit for Traveller. What an ego he has.

I have to say I played a lot more Traveller then D&D between 1977 and 1999. I only made one of the reunion games (I had a business trip to Minneapolis that happened to be at the same time in 1990 or 1991). I had an almost complete collection of classic Traveller, MegaTraveller, Traveller The New Era, and Mark Millers Traveller materials. I stopped when I found myself collection GURPS Traveller materials. I have since sold some of those, but my website has far more Traveller material then D&D material.

I got back into D&D a little when David moved to Orlando to teach video game design at Fullsail University in 1999. Through those sessions with David I had an opportunity to participate in play testing the D&D 3.0 materials. My my daughter and her future husband were part of the play testing group, too. That was a treat as well.

When I was playing with David's group of teachers, he took us through a modified version of the "Garbage Pits of Dispare" adventure which was quite a treat. I have since picked up copies of the DW issues it was in and realized that it was essentially the same adventure.
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Greg Svenson

Tgamemaster1975 · Tenderfoot Joined: 07 May 2007 Posts: 6

I for one would love to read a thread devoted to how Blackmoor was played in the early days before D&D was published. Since I started playing in 1975 I am very well acquainted with Gygaxian D&D and I would love to run a campaign and become acquainted with Arnesonian D&D. As far most D&D forums go, this is the first one that I am aware of that has the potential to really give me the scoop on how Blackmoor was played and that is what is of interest to me.

As far as Mr Kask saying he will print why he does not like Mr Arneson, all I will say it this. Some people are oil and water from the git go and do not get along and (often, but not always) mutually interpret what the other does in the worst possible light. Most people at some point in their lives have either done something stupid that created an enemy or caught someone on a bad day and their best efforts still made an enemy. Such is life!

I hope that this forum can give us the balance this topic deserves and focus on the info and not the interpersonal dynamics (except for the good ones that is).