alhoon
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Stefan? Wasn't he an Archduke?Hey, I was quite sure that Stefan Karameikos was an Archduke that broke away from Thyatis...
(Yeah, it is just  )
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Rafael
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Wasn't it Alphatia?
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Glgnfz
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nope - it was thyatis, but he's not an archduke.
(gaz1 - page 4)
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Cab
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Duke Stefan traded his significant wealth for autonomy, turning what was a duchy of Thyatis into an independent grand duchy.
From Havaards excellent timeline of Karameikos (to be found over at VofP):
AC 970
Duke Stefan Karameikos III of Machetos assumes control of Traladara, making it a Grand Duchy independent of Thyatis, and renaming it Karameikos. To pay for this, he gives his friend Emperor Thincol "The Brave" Torion his ancestral lands of Machetos. Thincol strips the duchy of Machetos of all wealth before handing it over to General Callastian Jowdynites, as a reward for good and faithful service to the Empire. (K:KoA + DotE)
Grand Duke Stefan Karameikos III now gives land to Thyatian allies making them the new nobility of the new country. (K:KoA)
(so that all happened 30 years before the gazetteers were set)
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Cab
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Oh, and he's usually referred to as a Grand Duke, or just Duke. Might have seen him also referred to as Arch Duke, which would make more sense.
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alhoon
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Ahem... isn't the "grand Duke" title the same as "archduke" title?
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Rafael
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No. 
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Cab
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| alhoon wrote: | | Ahem... isn't the "grand Duke" title the same as "archduke" title? |
Is it? An arch duke does (according to the rules) reign over something often called a grand duchy. But if Duke Stefan doesn't choose to take that title, then thats jus how it is.
The only places on Mystara that really take the rules version of nobility seriously are Norwold (see CM1), and arguably Thyatis and the Isle of Dawn. And even those areas don't follow the guidelines very closely.
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Rafael
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Yepp, what Cabb says is correct. 
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Havard
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| Cab wrote: | | alhoon wrote: | | Ahem... isn't the "grand Duke" title the same as "archduke" title? |
Is it? An arch duke does (according to the rules) reign over something often called a grand duchy. But if Duke Stefan doesn't choose to take that title, then thats jus how it is.
The only places on Mystara that really take the rules version of nobility seriously are Norwold (see CM1), and arguably Thyatis and the Isle of Dawn. And even those areas don't follow the guidelines very closely. |
I had never thought about this. Karameikos is clearly a Grand Duchy. It is stated that Stefan does not take the title King so as not to provoke the Thyatians. I guess that is why he choses to go by Duke rather than Archduke or Grand Duke also. Ofcourse, by AC1010 this doesn't matter so much anymore 
Havard
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alhoon
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Guys... it is called the Grand Duchy of Karameikos. That makes him a Grand duke, doesn't it?
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Rafael
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No - the duchy's just GRAND, and he is an ARCH. :brushteeth:
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Gawain_VIII
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The title Grand Duke used in Western Europe and particularly in Germanic countries for provincial sovereigns, is of a protocolary rank below King but higher than a sovereign Duke or Prince.
The noble title of Archduke denotes a rank above Duke and under King, but is too rare and yet has uses too diverse to be given a fixed relative position within the former Holy Roman Empire to which vast European territory it was restricted.
In imperial Russia, archduke was used for non-(sovereign) rulers as a titular rank for princes of the Austrian ruling house of Habsburg, in chief of an Austrian homeland but without becoming its hereditary ruler (occasionally it might be combined with a separate gubernatorial mandate), as all territories remained vested in the Austrian crown.
In game terms, a Duke is a fief of a King, while a Grand Duke (although less than a king) is not a subject of one. An Archduke is a relative of the king--regardless of actual rulership; however it might be fairly assumed that Archduke is reserved for ruling princes, while "prince" is kept for non-rulers.
Roger
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Havard
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Poland was made a Grand Duchy by Napoleon. That might be the inspiration for giving Karameikos this status in meta game terms...
Havard
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Cab
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Just occurred to me... Were there any Archdukes or Grand Dukes in the Holy Roman Empire?
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Rafael
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Yes! :smt001 ...At least I think so... grand Dukes in any case, but no Archdukes if I am not mistaken...
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